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	<title>Comments on: creating &quot;the new society within the shell of the old&quot;</title>
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	<link>http://cluebyfour.com/2008/06/creating-the-new-society-within-the-shell-of-the-old/</link>
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		<title>By: lynx</title>
		<link>http://cluebyfour.com/2008/06/creating-the-new-society-within-the-shell-of-the-old/comment-page-1/#comment-1113</link>
		<dc:creator>lynx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 19:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cluebyfour.com/2008/06/creating-the-new-society-within-the-shell-of-the-old/#comment-1113</guid>
		<description>voting for candidates is a waste of time, no matter who wins we&#039;re always left with a &#039;representative&#039; government that doesn&#039;t even pretend to represent us.  i&#039;ll vote on ballot initiatives and anything else where it&#039;s direct democracy, but i&#039;m never again going to vote for a politician.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;like you, i&#039;ve thought about leaving america for a long time, probably will eventually.  but, also like you, i can&#039;t help thinking there&#039;s still work for me to do here.  besides which, there&#039;s no place left to run too.  europe isn&#039;t as crazy fucked as america, but it&#039;s close and getting closer all the time.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;this whole &#039;western civilization&#039; thing has gone so far off course we&#039;re almost guaranteed to hit an iceberg sooner or later, so i try to spend my time building lifeboats.  everything worthwhile out of that tradition - freedom, human dignity, individual and human rights, has been left by the wayside as people cling to all the things that are slowly but surely killing them; gluttony, sloth, greed, avarice.  it&#039;s like a medieval morality play about what happens when a society forsakes reason and elevates the seven deadly sins to virtues.  i&#039;d be tempted to think it&#039;s satire except no one&#039;s laughing. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I don&#039;t think it&#039;s possible any more to take down the empire directly, but maybe if we can put forward some really good alternatives and start building the infrastructure for a better world, we&#039;ll be able to at least salvage something when mainstream america falls apart.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;as for what form that takes, that&#039;s up to &#039;we the people&#039; to decide.  i just want to make sure that when that decision is being made all the options are on the table.  otherwise, people will just pick up the pieces and go right back to doing what they&#039;ve always done.  we have to have at least a working model of what a better society could look like in place before our neighbors will take us seriously instead of dismissing us as crazy dreamers.   &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;like your title said - creating &quot;the new society within the shell of the old&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>voting for candidates is a waste of time, no matter who wins we&#8217;re always left with a &#8216;representative&#8217; government that doesn&#8217;t even pretend to represent us.  i&#8217;ll vote on ballot initiatives and anything else where it&#8217;s direct democracy, but i&#8217;m never again going to vote for a politician.  </p>
<p>like you, i&#8217;ve thought about leaving america for a long time, probably will eventually.  but, also like you, i can&#8217;t help thinking there&#8217;s still work for me to do here.  besides which, there&#8217;s no place left to run too.  europe isn&#8217;t as crazy fucked as america, but it&#8217;s close and getting closer all the time.  </p>
<p>this whole &#8216;western civilization&#8217; thing has gone so far off course we&#8217;re almost guaranteed to hit an iceberg sooner or later, so i try to spend my time building lifeboats.  everything worthwhile out of that tradition &#8211; freedom, human dignity, individual and human rights, has been left by the wayside as people cling to all the things that are slowly but surely killing them; gluttony, sloth, greed, avarice.  it&#8217;s like a medieval morality play about what happens when a society forsakes reason and elevates the seven deadly sins to virtues.  i&#8217;d be tempted to think it&#8217;s satire except no one&#8217;s laughing. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s possible any more to take down the empire directly, but maybe if we can put forward some really good alternatives and start building the infrastructure for a better world, we&#8217;ll be able to at least salvage something when mainstream america falls apart.  </p>
<p>as for what form that takes, that&#8217;s up to &#8216;we the people&#8217; to decide.  i just want to make sure that when that decision is being made all the options are on the table.  otherwise, people will just pick up the pieces and go right back to doing what they&#8217;ve always done.  we have to have at least a working model of what a better society could look like in place before our neighbors will take us seriously instead of dismissing us as crazy dreamers.   </p>
<p>like your title said &#8211; creating &#8220;the new society within the shell of the old&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: dancewater</title>
		<link>http://cluebyfour.com/2008/06/creating-the-new-society-within-the-shell-of-the-old/comment-page-1/#comment-1112</link>
		<dc:creator>dancewater</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 01:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cluebyfour.com/2008/06/creating-the-new-society-within-the-shell-of-the-old/#comment-1112</guid>
		<description>Voting is one way to peacefully change things - and you make a good argument that it does NOT change things.  But when you have a huge power like the USA, even picking a marginally better candidate can make a HUGE difference.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;For example, Gore would have continued the killing sanctions in Iraq, but likely would have stopped the 9-11 attack, and would not have started up a war in Afghanistan and Iraq..... so, people still would have died, but LESS of them.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I always vote - there is always someone that I respect that I can vote for.  I may vote for McKinney this time around, or maybe Obama.  But voting is free, easy, safe, and gives Americans a chance to influence our country - which many foreigners wish they could do.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;On top of that, I have friends who worked during Freedom Summer, and suffered greatly (including burying friends) to get the right to vote for people in the USA.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I say &quot;vote&quot;.... no matter what.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Voting is one way to peacefully change things &#8211; and you make a good argument that it does NOT change things.  But when you have a huge power like the USA, even picking a marginally better candidate can make a HUGE difference.</p>
<p>For example, Gore would have continued the killing sanctions in Iraq, but likely would have stopped the 9-11 attack, and would not have started up a war in Afghanistan and Iraq&#8230;.. so, people still would have died, but LESS of them.</p>
<p>I always vote &#8211; there is always someone that I respect that I can vote for.  I may vote for McKinney this time around, or maybe Obama.  But voting is free, easy, safe, and gives Americans a chance to influence our country &#8211; which many foreigners wish they could do.</p>
<p>On top of that, I have friends who worked during Freedom Summer, and suffered greatly (including burying friends) to get the right to vote for people in the USA.</p>
<p>I say &#8220;vote&#8221;&#8230;. no matter what.</p>
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		<title>By: RainforestRobin</title>
		<link>http://cluebyfour.com/2008/06/creating-the-new-society-within-the-shell-of-the-old/comment-page-1/#comment-1111</link>
		<dc:creator>RainforestRobin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 04:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cluebyfour.com/2008/06/creating-the-new-society-within-the-shell-of-the-old/#comment-1111</guid>
		<description>Wow! You are raising some wonderful questions and thoughts here. I can see you are very much a free-thinker. I find your posts very outspoken and I admire that. You are choosing to NOT go through life asleep at the wheel. For one to awaken and &quot;question&quot;, even if they don&#039;t have the answers, is very noble and necessary for change. In doing what you are doing you have already opened the door to change. I will be interested to hear what you learn, see and experience as you travel the country.  I think you will find it a remarkable experience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow! You are raising some wonderful questions and thoughts here. I can see you are very much a free-thinker. I find your posts very outspoken and I admire that. You are choosing to NOT go through life asleep at the wheel. For one to awaken and &#8220;question&#8221;, even if they don&#8217;t have the answers, is very noble and necessary for change. In doing what you are doing you have already opened the door to change. I will be interested to hear what you learn, see and experience as you travel the country.  I think you will find it a remarkable experience.</p>
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